Good observations and interesting to think about men’s perspective as sons, husbands, and fathers. It’s difficult to enjoy motherhood outside of a worldview or religious tradition that explicitly values it, and even then it will push you to the edge of your capabilities. It took me a long time, a mental health crisis, and a lot of therapy to allow two things to be true at once. I love taking care of my three little sons and am also frequently exhausted, overstimulated, and overwhelmed. This means I need help from their father, not judgment. I’m blessed to be married to someone who knows how to provide this when I need relief.
Fascinating piece. Definitely provides a useful interpretation for why men are so eager to push motherhood onto women, and so annoyed (or even enraged) by women who choose not to have children or to end a pregnancy.
I wrote a criticism of "Selfish Reasons to Have more Children" saying it should have been "Selfish Reasons for Men to Have More Children" because the costs for women are higher such that it requires selflessness. A man responded I was wrong, and then when he made no headway convincing me, accused me of being selfish for only having two kids.
I think the aggressive reaction is caused by a certain implied nihilism, not by the women finding the experience challenging (which is, y'know, obvious to anyone with two brain cells).
Marriage is similar - would you respect a man who wrote a thinkpiece on how he "stopped loving his wife" because she fell sick, became disabled, or otherwise caused difficulty for him through no fault of her own? We assume that familial love is a conscious choice, momentary state of brain chemistry be damned. Defection against that provokes revulsion and social ostracism, and... shouldn't it, really?
I think "most men" (what a phrase) avoid phrasing it this way on purpose, and indeed, view it as defection. Once you claim you no longer love your child or your spouse, it's easier to act on it, and we'd rather fake it till we make it. Maybe it's idealism, maybe it's stupidity - take your pick.
I do recommend reading the article from the NYT and if you are blessed with a wife and children, discussing the contents of the article with her if its full context doesn’t give you more clarity.
It's pay/loginwalled and I'd rather give money to a terrorist org than to NYT. On the other hand, I don't expect the guy reposting it on twitter read it either.
Good observations and interesting to think about men’s perspective as sons, husbands, and fathers. It’s difficult to enjoy motherhood outside of a worldview or religious tradition that explicitly values it, and even then it will push you to the edge of your capabilities. It took me a long time, a mental health crisis, and a lot of therapy to allow two things to be true at once. I love taking care of my three little sons and am also frequently exhausted, overstimulated, and overwhelmed. This means I need help from their father, not judgment. I’m blessed to be married to someone who knows how to provide this when I need relief.
Fascinating piece. Definitely provides a useful interpretation for why men are so eager to push motherhood onto women, and so annoyed (or even enraged) by women who choose not to have children or to end a pregnancy.
I wrote a criticism of "Selfish Reasons to Have more Children" saying it should have been "Selfish Reasons for Men to Have More Children" because the costs for women are higher such that it requires selflessness. A man responded I was wrong, and then when he made no headway convincing me, accused me of being selfish for only having two kids.
Yes! That is my point!
Resonant. Thanks. Will be thinking about this for a while
Thank you!
Thank you for articulating what I probably felt, decades ago, during my (failing) temple marriage.
Excellent @eurydice especially that final para
Thank you!!
Oh dang, this is why my marriage failed
I think the aggressive reaction is caused by a certain implied nihilism, not by the women finding the experience challenging (which is, y'know, obvious to anyone with two brain cells).
Marriage is similar - would you respect a man who wrote a thinkpiece on how he "stopped loving his wife" because she fell sick, became disabled, or otherwise caused difficulty for him through no fault of her own? We assume that familial love is a conscious choice, momentary state of brain chemistry be damned. Defection against that provokes revulsion and social ostracism, and... shouldn't it, really?
You have quite a low bar for what counts as defection from familial love as a conscious choice, as do most men, a major observation made by the post.
I think "most men" (what a phrase) avoid phrasing it this way on purpose, and indeed, view it as defection. Once you claim you no longer love your child or your spouse, it's easier to act on it, and we'd rather fake it till we make it. Maybe it's idealism, maybe it's stupidity - take your pick.
I do recommend reading the article from the NYT and if you are blessed with a wife and children, discussing the contents of the article with her if its full context doesn’t give you more clarity.
It's pay/loginwalled and I'd rather give money to a terrorist org than to NYT. On the other hand, I don't expect the guy reposting it on twitter read it either.
I chickened out of fatherhood myself for precisely this reason, but I basically agree.